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Topic: Better toke a new one, Mr. Soul...
Post #11 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 12:36 AM
Mr Soul
 

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It's my belief that he lied. Fitzerald just didn't have a case or Rove would have been indicted.

He told something that wasn't true. You decide if it was a lie or not.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13301765/from/RS.2/

WASHINGTON - The decision not to charge Karl Rove shows there often are no consequences for misleading the public.

In 2003, while Rove allowed the White House to tell the news media that he had no role in leaking Valerie Plame's CIA identity, the presidential aide was secretly telling the FBI the truth.

It's now known that Rove had discussed Plame's CIA employment with conservative columnist Robert Novak, who exposed her identity less than a week later, citing two unidentified senior administration officials.

Rove's truth-telling to the FBI saved him from indictment.

And by misleading reporters, the White House saved itself from a political liability during the 2004 presidential campaign.

While the president and the vice president underwent questioning by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald in 2004, Rove's role never surfaced. The lone blip on the radar screen was a one-day flurry of news stories the month before Election Day when Rove was brought before a federal grand jury - one of his five grand jury appearances in the probe.

The extent of Rove's involvement didn't become official until Oct. 28 of last year, when Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, was indicted on charges of perjury, obstruction and lying to the FBI about how he learned of Plame's CIA identity and what he told reporters about it.

The indictment recounted Rove's conversation with Novak about the CIA officer, as Rove later related it to Libby.
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Post #12 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 3:17 AM
clark_griswold
 

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Quote (Mr Soul @ June 14 2006,17:21)
Rove lied to the American people, he lied to Fitzgerald and got away with it. And if you don't think he lied, then you are a blind fool.



It's my belief that he lied.  Fitzerald just didn't have a case or Rove would have been indicted.

He told something that wasn't true.  You decide if it was a lie or not.

Ok.

First post, he DID lie, correct?  you have irrefutable proof there, obviously, by the strength of your statement.

Second post, you BELIEVE he lied?  Did your proof vanish or...?
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Post #13 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 4:33 AM
jeremysdemo
 
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Quote (Mr Soul @ June 14 2006,17:21)
And if you don't think he lied, then you are a blind fool.

Now now Mike,

Is it really nec. to resort to name calling?

We can all be civil in these debates.  :laugh:

Mis-informed, integrity deceived, benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty....

But a fool?  

That's a harsh word to throw around among friends.  :p



You all should be ashamed!

Shame indeed.

Knowing your right and successfully convincing others of it are two different things.
And when you cross the line while educating all, you run the risk of being heard by none.

I myself am not innocent of this, only would share my shortcoming in the hopes it would benifit you.

keep shinin'

jerm

:cool:
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Post #14 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 6:53 AM
KF
 
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Jeremysdemo I've broke mustangs that were smarter than you, and all of them could spell better.

But I suppose every rodeo needs a clown.
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Post #15 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 7:01 AM
Mr Soul
 

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Let's make it very simple - he told something that was untrue and the later said his memory was bad.  If Clinton had done that you would have called him a liar, so I'm using the Clinton standard.  He definitely McCellan that he wasn't involved but we know he was.

Even simplier - Rove told several reporters about Valerie Plame's identity and several days later Robert Novak printed that, thereby exposing her.  All the people that were invovled in the cover company she was working for were all exposed.  Anyone she knew when she worked overseas were exposed.  Outing a CIA agent is serious business, even if she was married to a partisan.
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Post #16 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 7:55 AM
jeremysdemo
 
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Quote (Guest @ June 14 2006,23:53)
Jeremysdemo I've broke mustangs that were smarter than you, and all of them could spell better.

But I suppose every rodeo needs a clown.

That's funny because I ran the words through a spell check.  ???
I guess it helps if you start out with the right word though!  :;):

Anyway, speaking of clowns....

Most clowns know how to sign up for a forum. And understand that they aren't listened too or taken seriously when they remain trolls.

I guess they eventually have to leave the cess pool again though! eh there bru! :p

My freinds call me, jerm, my aquaintances jeremy, but you sir are neither, so jeremysdemo is just fine thank you.


keep shinin'

jerm  :cool:

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Post #17 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 2:37 PM
clark_griswold
 

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Quote (Mr Soul @ June 15 2006,00:01)
Let's make it very simple - he told something that was untrue and the later said his memory was bad. If Clinton had done that you would have called him a liar, so I'm using the Clinton standard. He definitely McCellan that he wasn't involved but we know he was.

Even simplier - Rove told several reporters about Valerie Plame's identity and several days later Robert Novak printed that, thereby exposing her. All the people that were invovled in the cover company she was working for were all exposed. Anyone she knew when she worked overseas were exposed. Outing a CIA agent is serious business, even if she was married to a partisan.

Thanks again for simplyfing something for me Mike.  I never grow tired.

You are a giver...
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Post #18 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 5:04 PM
ksdb
 

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Quote (Mr Soul @ June 15 2006,00:01)
Let's make it very simple - he told something that was untrue and the later said his memory was bad. If Clinton had done that you would have called him a liar, so I'm using the Clinton standard. He definitely McCellan that he wasn't involved but we know he was.

Let's make it simpler. Rove wasn't indicted after being called in FIVE times. If he mentioned to a couple of reporters that Wilson's wife got him the job, it was only to clear up the confusion that Wilson created by suggesting he was working for Cheney. The memo that Rove had access to mentioned nothing about Plame's job being sensitive or classified, so it's not like Rove would have known that Plame would be at risk.

Quote (Mr Soul @ June 15 2006,00:01)
Even simplier - Rove told several reporters about Valerie Plame's identity and several days later Robert Novak printed that, thereby exposing her. All the people that were invovled in the cover company she was working for were all exposed. Anyone she knew when she worked overseas were exposed. Outing a CIA agent is serious business, even if she was married to a partisan.

Let's make this more "simplier." If you're a CIA agent whose cover needs to be protected, don't tell your boss that your husband can do a job for the company and then let your husband write an editorial about the job in a major newspaper. Friends, family and neighbors get suspicious when they've never seen where you worked and all of a sudden your husband gets a temporary job helping the CIA with no background in that type of work and no known assocation to the CIA. Wouldn't take too much to figure out there might be a connection with the wife.
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Post #19 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 6:10 PM
clark_griswold
 

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"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

- Ronald Reagan
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Post #20
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2006, 7:05 PM
Mr Soul
 

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ksdb - I do agree that Rove has not been indicted, therefore is presumed innocent. However, I want whomever leaked Plame's name to be held accountable. Do you want that - a simple yes or no will suffice. Please answer this question.

If he mentioned to a couple of reporters that Wilson's wife got him the job, it was only to clear up the confusion that Wilson created by suggesting he was working for Cheney.
This is complete lie! Wilson never worked for Cheney and he never said that he did - everyone knows that. The right-wing press completely mis-stated this point & you bloody know it.

Let's make this more "simplier." If you're a CIA agent whose cover needs to be protected, don't tell your boss that your husband can do a job for the company and then let your husband write an editorial about the job in a major newspaper. Friends, family and neighbors get suspicious when they've never seen where you worked and all of a sudden your husband gets a temporary job helping the CIA with no background in that type of work and no known assocation to the CIA. Wouldn't take too much to figure out there might be a connection with the wife.
This is where I don't agree with you. In fact, I can't even really follow what you're saying here, i.e., it doesn't make any sense to me. If you're suggesting that Wilson shouldn't have written his original article, then I disagree. If you're suggesting that he gave away her identity then you've got to prove it. And you've completely mistated Wilson's credentials to the point of smearing him, so you are completely wrong here. Even Novak praised Wilson's credentials, as you pointed out long ago when we discussed this before.

People knew that Wilson was a former state dept. worker, so it would not be unusual for him to get a gig with the CIA to go to Niger.  People did not know Plame worked for the CIA so how would they make the connection?  Too funny - ksdb.
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