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Topic: High Court Clarifies Racial Bias Standard
Post #11 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Posted On: Jun. 14 2005, 11:22 PM
TomS
 

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Lessee, there's liberal in the classical sense, which is conservative, there's liberal in the sense that the repubs want to make it a swear word, there's liberal in the Canadian sense....


Anyway, I don't think the case presents a liberal/conservative problem. It involves rather directly an equal protection problem. The evidence was that the jury selection was thoroughly racist. One dissenter, on a conservative court: Thomas. His name is most unfortunate, for it is very easy for those critical of him to call him "uncle Tom."  

BTW, if I had to define liberal it would include something to the effect that I recognize positive obligations to help each other, to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and to use the unique and unprecedented power of the whole to work for human conditions for all. The definition would also include somethign to the effect that transfer payments are necessary to achieve this. I would assert an equal right of all to basic education (right now, through a bachelors degree), adequate health care, adequate housing, food, and the basic conditions necessary for human flourishing. That is, I'd assert the basic rights found in the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

And, no, Bush does not fit this definition.
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Post #12 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 14 2005, 11:50 PM
gtr4him
 
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That all sounds great Tom. Let me know when you find somebody who does fit that description. I can ASSURE you, he/she WILL NOT be a politician in The United States of America. Ain't gonna happen. Ever.

TG
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Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 12:13 AM
phoo
 
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One thing to remember is that Thomas wasn't disagreeing with the evidence that it was racist. He was saying the federal government shouldn't be getting into states' issues. Historically, that has been a true Republican stance as part of a smaller government. It's also the same reason he cast his vote to let the states' pot laws stand. That decision was a bit of an odd one, too, if you put it into context with the way Republicans and Democrats generally sway. (OH - THE IRONY OF POLITICS)
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Post #14 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 12:16 AM
gtr4him
 
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He was saying the federal government shouldn't be getting into states' issues.

And he's RIGHT!

TG
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Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 12:23 AM
Ali_T
 

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Lessee, there's liberal in the classical sense, which is conservative, there's liberal in the sense that the repubs want to make it a swear word, there's liberal in the Canadian sense....


You forgot the Scottish sense Tom, "a liberal amount of whisky in a glass!"  :D

Ali
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Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 12:33 AM
Mr Soul
 

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Historically, that has been a true Republican stance as part of a smaller government.
That depends on how far you go back.  Before the Civil War, there was a group of Republicans called the Radical Republican (fancy that).  They were typically from northern states.  Lincoln, the most famous RR, ended slavery.  They believed in promoting industrial development through high tariffs, while their popular base lay among the freedmen and the white, Protestant population of the northern states.  This led to tension.

President Theodore Roosevelt who identified the Republicans with the cause of progressivismin particular the idea of a vigorous executive regulating the economy and society in the public interest.

It wasn't till later that they went back to their laissez-faire capitalistic ways.  This is a great simplication of history but you get the drift.
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Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 12:56 AM
TomS
 

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Quote (gtr4him @ June 14 2005,17:16)
He was saying the federal government shouldn't be getting into states' issues.


And he's RIGHT!

TG
Equal protection is not a states rights issue, it is at the core of the Civil War amendments.

Hey, Ali, how are things hanging?  I always thought that a liberal amount of whisky in the jar was a blessing we owed to the Irish.  :)
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Post #18 Skip to the next post in this topic.
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 1:01 AM
gtr4him
 
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I'm not arguing that Tom. Equal protection is actually a common decency issue IMO. I think what Justice Thomas was saying was that in his opinion, the state had acceptable controls in place. He did not say whether they worked or not.

We can't ALL be Chiefs.

TG -- happy little Indian
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Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 2:27 AM
John
 

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Quote (Mr Soul @ June 14 2005,15:57)
I'm sure we'll now be treated to somone's diatribe about how Bush is really expanding the government, or whatever...

Get a life John  :laugh:
Hello Pot, I'd like you to meet The Kettle.
:;):
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Post #20
Skip to the previous post in this topic. Posted On: Jun. 15 2005, 4:48 AM
Ali_T
 

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Hey, Ali, how are things hanging? I always thought that a liberal amount of whisky in the jar was a blessing we owed to the Irish.


Well, now that we're talking about important stuff again............. :D

The first definite written records of whisky production come from Scotland in the 15th century, but there's lots of anecdotal and other evidence that suggest the Irish did make it first, so the balance of evidence suggests you're right.

However, as wonderful poets, musicians and philosophers as the Irish are, they've never shown much inclination for engineering, so one wonders where they got it from.

The vikings made winter ale by freeze distillation back in the 8th century, and possibly earlier.

The Chinese were distilling sake long before then, so how it actually arrived in the British Isles, who knows?

But whoever it was; here's to them! Slainte! :cool:

Ali
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19 replies since Jun. 14 2005, 7:26 PM
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